Wednesday, October 12, 2011

The Time gap between Ram and Nishakar Muni

The Time gap between Ram and Nishakar Muni
http://www.valmikiramayan.net/kishkindha/sarga60/kishkindha_60_frame.htm



Book IV : Kishkindha Kanda - The Empire of Holy Monkeys

Chapter [Sarga] 60

aSTau varSa sahasraaNi tena asmin R^iSiNaa girau |
vasato mama dharmaj~no svar gate tu nishaakare || 4-60-9

9. dharma j~naH= probity, knower of; nishaakare= of Nishaakara's; svar gate tu= to heaven, after going, on his part; tena R^iSiNaa= by him, that sage; [vinaa= without]; asmin girau vasataH= on this, mountain, while living; mama= for me; aSTau varSa sahasraaNi eight, years, thousand - eight thousand years; [gatau= lapsed.]

"Eight thousand years have lapsed while I was living here on this mountain after the departure of that probity knowing sage Nishakara to heaven. [4-60-9]

http://www.valmikiramayan.net/kishkindha/sarga63/kishkindha_63_frame.htm



Book IV : Kishkindha Kanda - The Empire of Holy Monkeys

Chapter [Sarga] 63

adya tu etasya kaalasya saagram varSa shatam gatam |
desha kaala pratiikSo asmi hR^idi kR^itvaa muneH vacaH || 4-63-3

3. adya tu= as of now, but; etasya kaalasya= of this, time; sa agram= with, a little more; varSa shatam= years, hundred; gatam= slipped by; muneH vacaH= sage's, words; hR^idi kR^itvaa= in heart, on making [minding]; desha kaala pratiikSaH asmi= place [events,] time, awaiting.

"As of now, a little more than a hundred years have slipped by, and I am awaiting events and times minding sage's words in my heart... [4-63-3]


note in the site:
There is an inconsistency in accounting the years of Sage Nishaakara's living, dying and Sampaati's continuation on that mountain after sage's demise. It is said: 'for me lapsed are eight thousand years, without him...' at 4-60-9 by Sampaati and here he alone is saying that one hundred years are elapsed. For this there is another shade given to this verse in other mms and the compound varSa shatam gatam is replaced with varSa shata trayam 'years, hundred, three, three hundred years...' then the meaning will be 'that sage lived for eight thousand years, and he died a hundred years back, and I have been waiting for three hundred years after his demise...'


Therefore Nishakar Muni was alive(took birth) 8100 years before Ram.

Ram was in last quarter of Treta Yuga(=3600 years) i.e He must precede 3100 + 2400=5500 BC and should be after 5500+900=6400BC
Lets say he was in 5600 BC

So Nishakar Muni was born around 8100+5600=13700 BC to 14600 BC.

If we take this Nishakar Muni as the same Chandrama who is called the origin of Lunar dynasty then he was born several centuries before Nahusha.

Rule of Nahusha ended around 10000+3100=13100 BC as explained in another thread with a reference from Mahabharata.

The gap between birth of Nishakar Muni and fall of Nahusha was therefore between 600 years (13700-13100) to 1500 years(14600-13100).

Lunar dynasty's geneology was as follow:
Chandrama
Budha
Pururva
Aayu
Nahusha
Yayati
...


They all belonged to Krita Yuga in which normal age of humans was 400 years as per Manu Smriti.....so it is not a wonder that only 5 generations were there in a period of around 600 years. Even in kaliYuga 5 generations can take around 150 years because human age is only 100 years...so 150*4=600 years.

Evil of Rape in India.

Haridas:

Evil of Rape.

http://www.thewip.net/contributors/2010/03/indias_fastest_growing_crime_r.html
------
official statistics point to rape as the fastest growing crime in India, even when compared to murder, robbery and kidnapping. Despite assurances from law enforcement, the federal Home Ministry's National Crime Records Bureau (NCRB) states that every 30 minutes an Indian woman is raped. Since 1971 when rape cases were first recorded officially, the NCRB has registered a 678% increase in the crime.
---------
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Delhi-The-Rape-Capital-of-India/articleshow/762338.cms
------
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/77623/two-dutch-tourists-raped-robbed.html
------
http://www.timesnow.tv/Man-accused-of-raping-Brazilian-girl-arrested/articleshow/4348567.cms

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/site/Story/81361/india/Goa+ministers+spar+over+Russian+girl's+rape.html
------
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/US-student-raped-by-batchmates-in-Mumbai/articleshow/4406610.cms
--------
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1194153/British-girl-18-teaching-India-raped-taxi-drivers.html
--------
http://www.indiadaily.org/entry/2-japanese-women-raped-in-agra/

if this was not enough
In a shocking incident, the 77-year-old wife of a retired government official was beaten up and raped by a rickshaw puller in north Delhi, police said on Sunday.
--------
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/145514/77-year-old-raped-beaten.html
--------

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2010-04-09/pune/28142260_1_army-jawans-girl-teenager

Santosh Kumar :


Bro, do you think we can bring any awareness in public of this evil thing by any no. of discussions on this crime?

Discussions on Historical characters and their misdeeds/rape is fine, but how would we benefit ourselves/outsiders with discussing this topic of today's atrocities?

Please don't get me wrong. We can bring awareness in people by showing them the pain of slaughtering animals and make them vegie, but "carnal desires" can't be erased by external agencies. One has to erase one's such evil quality by his own efforts or else by God/Guru.

So, do you see any positive impact if we discuss this .

Shikshapatri by Swami Narayan

Shikshapatri by Swami Narayan

Haridas:

I will post in this thread some nice instructions over a period of time by Sahajanand swami of Swami Narayan vaishnav sampradaya .

Householders
Do not indulge in extra-marital relations.
Shloka: 18

Married men and women, should be loving, loyal and faithful to one another. Do not be harsh to one another.
Shloka: 159

Do not keep the company of licentious, lustful and loose persons.
Shloka: 161

Do not have an abortion and do not keep the company of those who encourage or assist in abortion.
Shloka: 170


"If everyone followed the Shikshapatri, there would be no judicial system." - Sardar Vallabh Patel


Sanjay :
I have read this Shikshapatri by Swami Narayan. It is very interesting and the Vachnamrut that was written by him was from Bhagwat Gita being narrated to simple uneducated people in Gujarati language.
But, today there are many Swami Narayan paths. Many of them broke away from the original path and wrote their own rules and do not follow the rules written in Shikshapatri.

My thoughts on Vegetarianism

Prashant:

This was a piece I had written ages ago, I think I should post it here. I am mainly targeting the Hindu community who might be interested, as

----------

Adhering to vegetarianism should no longer be seen as an option, or even a lifestyle we have to adapt to. It goes without saying that both the findings- based on ancient scriptures, as well as modern science- support vegetarianism unanimously. Along with ethical reasons, we will also explore physiological, environmental and numerous other reasons

Biological and Health Reasons:(wn.com/vegetarian)

Compared to non-vegetarians, Western vegetarians have:-
• A lower average Body Mass Index (BMI)
• A lower mean plasma total cholesterol concentration
• A lower mortality from IHD (by about 25 percent).
- Hide quoted text -
• They may also have a lower risk for some other diseases such as constipation, diverticulitis disease, gallstones and appendicitis.
• The evidence available suggests that widespread adoption of a vegetarian diet could prevent approximately 40,000 deaths from IHD in Britain each year.

Furthermore, vegetarians had;
• 1/2 the high blood pressure and diabetes
• 1/2 the colon cancer
• 2/3 the rheumatoid arthritis and prostate cancer


Breast, lung, & uterine cancers tended to be lower in vegetarians. Some might argue that these results are biased, or they might be due to random chance, but no; they are spread out over a large sample size and are very conclusive, and hence irrefutable. This is a research conducted worldwide, and it holds true for all people from all countries.

For anyone who has suffered, or known someone to have suffered from a chronic disease, the first thing the doctor would advice them is to cut down on meat consumption, and completely stop eating red meat. Numerous diseases such as high blood pressure, coronary problems, liver problems, parasitic ailments like brain cysts, mad cow disease etc are caused by eating non vegetarian food

Many studies have positively linked vegetarianism and a person’s lifespan, and this isn’t news to us. Rishis (seers/sages) who used to feed off of fallen fruits, and eat a completely satvik diet lived much longer than the average person.

Satvik food determines one's mental and physical health and well being.

Also, as George Bernard Shaw put it “I do not want to make my stomach a graveyard of dead animals”

NUTRITIONAL REASONS

One of the most popular arguments and misconceptions are that vegetarian food lacks omega 3 fats, and that it can only be acquired through seafood. That is a fallacy. Omega 3 fats are abundantly found in flax-seed oil and olive oil. So the next time you are making pizza or pasta at home, make sure to add some olive oil!

Now we come to the most popular argument of meat eaters- Protein ! Yes, protein is a very essential component of our body, and especially so for growing kids. I know plenty of people who lead a very active lifestyle, playing competitive sports, bodybuilding etc, and they are pure vegetarians.

The staple Indian meal of dal, chaval, sabji and roti suffices more than enough for the body’s protein requirement.


Amino acids are the building blocks of proteins, curd(yogurt) contains every single essential amino acid that the body requires, and there is no meat product that even comes close to providing these nutrients.


One is often under the impression that Vitamin D can only be found in meat products (especially seafood), and not in any other vegetarian food. That is true, but fortunately, taking a 3-5 minute walk in the morning or evening sunlight as little as a couple of times a week is enough to synthesize the Vitamin D that we need, and it certainly is worth (not to mention healthy) to talk a walk. Five minutes is the least one can spare to uphold a high level of ahinsa.

ECOLOGICAL REASONS

One might say eating plants is killing life too. Unfortunately, it is, and it is the only way we can live. Now, let us take a look at the following line of logic
A vegetarian eats ‘X’ number of plants.

A Non vegetarian not only kills ‘Y’ number of animals, but also in the process of animal husbandry, they feed the animals at least 40 ‘X’ amount of vegetarian food as the animal’s weight, and then eat the animal as well. So if a vegetarian has killed ‘X’ number of plants, a non vegetarian has killed minimum ’40 X + Y’ number of plants and animals. Which is the greater sin? That I’ll let you figure out for yourselves.

Let me explain using the example of a chicken. Chickens are especially reared in poultry farm, in numbers far greater than their natural population; so as to not inconvenience people who would like to eat them.

The chickens are fed a large number of worms to increase their mass and to fatten them up for consumption. These worms in turn feed on an even greater amount of plant and organic matter, on land which could otherwise have been used for growing crops.

Let us look at the equation again in this new light and calculate the damage done. Vegetarians consume ‘X’ plants, non vegetarians consume ‘Z chickens + Z.Y worms + Z.Y.X plants’. Does this sound unbelievable? I know it does, and yet it is very unfortunately true.

These numbers too are the lower estimate approximations that I have given. A human being consumes on average 36,000 kgs of food in a lifetime, so you can imagine the wastage of resources and harm to t

If we grew crops on all the land that was being wasted to feed non-vegetarians, there are studies which show that the world food crisis would come to an end. Every man, woman and child would have food to eat. Other studies have also shown that the factors involved in producing non vegetarian food (waste of crop land, waste of natural resources, transportation, etc) are the leading causes of global warming, which too would stop if everyone became a vegetarian.

MORAL REASONS

Non vegetarians claim that plants have nerve endings and can feel pain. This is an unqualified assumption of facts that do not exist. For example, when you touch a mimosa (a touch-me-not plant), the reason it curls up isn’t because it feels something and it consciously decides to close its leaves, it is due to the potassium ion chain, that when applied pressure to the cell wall there will be a transfer of ions and it will act as a lever to close the leaf.

A plant has no central nervous system- meaning it has neither brain, nor nerve endings, and hence no sensation of pain.

It is a well established fact that animals feel extreme pain, not only when they are being slaughtered, but also during the long periods they are held captive. Pigs are battered with rods in order to kill them.

Piglets are lifted and thrashed head first onto the ground. Cows are shot at with stun guns, often they do not die from the first assault and have to endure extreme pain until the time they are hit again. Roosters, chickens, ducks are immersed in a steaming cauldron and boiled alive so their feathers are plucked easily. These are only few of the ways animals are mistreated, there are several more which cannot be listed due to space restraint.

----------

EGG AND POULTRY INDUSTRY


Chickens are cooped up in tiny enclosures, where they peck at one another. To stop this behavior, the poultry de-beaks the chickens, this causes them a tremendous amount of pain. The normal egg laying period of a chicken is 14 days, but due to hormones injected into their bodies, they lay eggs around once a day.

These hormones make the chicken very fat, so that their weak legs break off. Also to stimulate egg laying, they are exposed to bright light and are deprived of sleep. Due to this they get cranky and fight with one another.

In these inhumane conditions, the chickens are kept for a few years during which time their eggs are collected for human consumption. After they “retire” from egg laying, they are sent away to slaughter houses.

The chickens are transported in tiny cages in open trucks, without any protection against the extreme heat or cold. Statistics show that 25% of chickens die before they reach their destination.

The remaining chickens are thrown into a hot cauldron, and boiled alive before having their feathers plucked. All of this pain and suffering, only to end up as a delicacy on someone’s plate, or in a bucket as fried chicken.


IN CONCLUSION

One might say that if vegetarians care so much for life, then why not starve instead of eating plants also. The reason vegetarians aren't starving, is because as per our religion, suicide is a very great sin, hence it is called ‘Aatma-hatya’.

We will survive on the bare minimum food, but we won't kill ourselves in the process. Life has no purpose, evolution has no direction, and our souls have no upliftment if we end our lives intentionally. What we can be certain of is that we will face karmic consequences for whatever we think, speak or do, so we must use our lives wisely to do the finer deeds, and keep violence and harm to other creatures at the lowest possible level.

Unfortunately, non vegetarianism causes more harm to the ecology as a whole. Being a vegetarian means trying to live in a world with the least amount of violence, and in harmony with nature.

A non vegetarian will care about how the food on their plate tastes, rather than how much the animal it’s made of has suffered for it, and how what now has become “food”, was once a happy and thinking animal that was mercilessly slaughtered to be made lunch or dinner out of.


Remember, each time you eat meat and bite into it, with relish, one by one you're destroying parts of what was once a living creature’s body that felt a lot of pain to be part of your meal.

Remember that it has been through immense torture simply because of your demand to consume it. By eating an animal, you are making your stomach the ultimate grave for a free living being, that unfortunately didn’t even get a chance to remain free since it was in captivity since birth, to one day end up in your abdomen, digested over time, and that is the end of a being that wanted to be free, and wanted to live, just like any of us.

Their life is in our hands, how we wish to respect it, is entirely in our hands.

( Thanks to Prashant )

"Allama" Iqbal: a misogynist and Glorifier of Islamic Terrorism

"Allama" Iqbal the misogynist
Had the "Allama" been alive, he would have had a gala time not just at
the Orangi and Hira Mandi brothels but even with the widows and the
children of "martyrs" who are proliferating by the day in Pakistan.


The following two books by the scholar W.C.Smith provide some
illuminating insights into Iqbal's misogynist mindset:


1. Modern Islam In India, Victor Gollancz, London, 1946
2. Islam In Modern History, Princeton University Press, Princeton,
1957


Iqbal's personality development was for men only. Smith wrote that
even at "his most poetic, his most progressive, his most inclusively
utopian" moments, Iqbal left women of the world out of his dynamic new
world.


Smith went on to write, "For women, he wanted no activism, no freedom.
Iqbal kept his own wives in purdah and untiringly preached to the
world his conception of the ideal woman."


In Javid-Namah, Iqbal satirized a western woman who addresses other
women as:


"Ladies! Mothers! Sisters!
How long shall you live as beloveds?
Belovedness is sheer privation:
It is suffering of oppression and tyranny."


Iqbal epitomized his conception of the ideal woman in his ode to the
Prophet's daughter (translation by Smith):


"The chaste Fatimah is the harvest of the field of submission,
is a perfect model for mothers,
So touched was her heart for the poor,
That she sold her own wrap.
She who might command the spirits of heaven and hell
Merged her own will in the will of her husband.
Her upbringing was in courtesy and forbearance:

And, murmuring the Koran, she ground corn."

....................

Apart from that He is also among the crowd for glorification of Islamic terrorism i.e. A wish that led to so called Blasphemy Law in Pakistan:

I found this:
# Muhammed Iqbal placed the body in the grave with tears in his eyes and said: "This young man left us, the educated men behind [in status]."

He said this about the killer Ilm-ud-din Shaheed who was hanged but was hailed as a martyr, and is now accorded the title of "Ghazi".

This guy was given the status of almost equivalent to National poet Maithili Sharan Gupt and author of vandematram, B C Chattergy just because he wrote a song "Sare Jahan Se Accha". Later he became one in mind with the terrorists of Muslim League to divide India and to implement infamous Blasphemy Law in Pakistan to harass non-Muslims.

Similarly Amir Khusro is often glorified as one of the earliest Hindi poets while his works were full of hatred of putting off the thirst of swords in the blood of Hindus.

These are just two cases for citing. There are many infact.

Anyway, the point is that Hindus have a problem with reality. As independent Hindu writer Siva Prasad Ray (Turning of the Wheel, A. Ghosh, Houston/Calcutta 1985) has observed, Hindu polemicists, especially Gandhians, are expert at interacting with a partner without the latter knowing about it. They merely impute feelings and opinions to the partner without checking what these are in reality. With that self-deception, it is easy to maintain fictions like the Gandhian mantra of "Hindu-Muslim unity", or likewise, the RSS characterization of Indian Muslims as "Mohammedi Hindus".

http://koenraadelst.bharatvani.org/articles/fascism/replytopv.html

.........

Iqbal was quite fickle minded:

"Later I found out that Iqbal had a very colorful life. At one time he converted to Ahmadia religion and wrote extensively for Ahmadia, then came back to “regular” Islam. Then he became a Communist and wrote poems defending, even with a touch of violence, the working class. " (taken from PWI)

“Nations which give women more freedom than is necessary regret their mistake at one time or another. Nature has imposed such important responsibilities on a woman that if she tries to discharge them fully, she cannot find the leisure to do any other work. Taking her away from her real duties and giving her work which can be performed by a man would certainly be wrong. For instance, making a woman into a typist or clerk is not only a violation of the laws of nature but a regrettable attempt to turn human society topsy-turvy.” (Iqbal)


And then the same Iqbal will say, “The claim of the present generation of Muslim liberals to reinterpret the foundational legal principles, in the light of their own experience and the altered conditions of modern life is, in my opinion, perfectly justified. The teaching of the Quran that life is a process of progressive creation necessitates that each generation, guided but unhampered by the work of its predecessors, should be permitted to solve its own problems.” (Iqbal: “Reconstruction of Religious Thought in Islam”)

He was definitely confused. The more you read him the more you will know how confusing and contradicting his thoughts were on different issues.

Later he chose the Wahabi ideology as favorite which is most dangerous piece of Islamic ideology of Totalitarianism . This was what led to Pakistan: Rejection of everything Non Arabic to feel as a true Muslim.


Nilofer :
I see positive side of Allama Iqbal

Few of his lines are my Favorite

like :

"Khudi ko kar buland itna ke har taqdeer se pehle khuda bande se khud poochhe bata teri raza kya hai"

peshanion pe likhe muqqadar nahi mile...
dastaar kya milenge jahaan saar nahi mile..
awaargi ko doop te suraj se rapt hai..
magrib ke baad hum bhi to ghar pe kahan mile...
mai chahta tha ke khud se mulaqaat ho meri...
par mere ghar ke aine mere kad ke barabar na mile......

Song

Sare jahan se achha ......

Yes I am againest his views of Two Nation Theory otherwise he was great Scholar and Thinker

Do you know?
Iqbal descended from a family of Kashmiri Brahmins.

_________


Dr Iqbal's grandfather was a Kashmiri Pandit belonging to Sapru clan. His father , in order to marry a Punjabi Muslim woman , converted to Islam- much against the wishes of his near ones.

His father Ratan Lal was summarily disowned by the Sapru family & was discredited. Unfortunately, Ratan lal did not live a happy life & died when Iqbal was very young. Post his death Dr Iqbal went back to his paternal grandmother & request her to “take him back" into the family fold. The social norms of the day did not allow Saprus to accept Iqbal back. In fact some of his relatives belittled him since his father had converted to Islam.

This rejection hit Iqbal hard. He slowly but surely transformed into a bigot of sorts. Though he seemed to be a polished poet during his early days, the hurt he received due to rejection during his formative years resurfaced as bigotry. Iqbal somehow managed to convert his personal rejection & belittling into a life long mission & linked it with his Quom- the Muslim community & started lamenting about the sad state of affairs of the Muslim community. He project Muslims as a wronged community who needed to unite & fight the forces that were suppressing it. Most believe Pakistan was his brainchild.

Interestingly while he borrowed very heavily from Kashmiri Shaiva philosophy ( Khudi which is just a translation of Soham/Shivoham), he seemed to be very bitter against “Hindus”, perhaps because of reasons mentioned above.
(from PWI)

Most Muslims whose near ancestors were Hindu or converted Muslims were vehemently anti Hindu to prove themselves as true Muslims. e.g Aurangzeb and some other Islamic rulers.

Arvind Ghosh: A Communal fascist ?

Arvind Ghosh: A Communal fascist ?
The strongest instance of "mixing religion with politics" and of identifying India with Hinduness was most certainly Sri Aurobindo's famous Uttarpara speech: "Other religions are preponderantly religions of faith and profession, but the Sanatana Dharma is life itself; it is a thing that has not so much to be believed as lived. This is the Dharma that for the salvation of humanity was cherished in the seclusion of this peninsula from of old. It is to give this religion that India is rising. (*) When therefore it is said that India shall rise, it is the Sanatana Dharma that shall rise. (*) It is for the Dharma and by the Dharma that India exists. To magnify the religion means to magnify the country. (*) When the Sanatana Dharma declines, then the nation declines (*) The Sanatana Dharma, that is nationalism."

In the desiccated and unsympathetic discourse of Indian secularism, anyone repeating Aurobindo's words as his own would be denounced as a "communal fascist". Yet, that fusion of Hindu spirituality and nationalist politics was the central message of the man whom Rao recognizes as a genuine Hindu sage.


http://koenraadelst.bharatvani.org/articles/fascism/replytopv.html

so what do you think what has gone wrong with our national thinking ?

Duryodhana and Ravan: Who was better ?

Sanjay :
Both were evil.
Ravan was a rapist.
Ravan took Lanka away from Kuber.
Ravan kidnapped Mata Sitaji.
Ravan did not listen to the advice of Vibhisan and dismissed him.
Ravan did not respect his grandfather Malyavan.
Ravan did not listen to any advice from his Sati wife Mandodari.
Ravan would not listen to anyone and continued the battle with Sri Ram.
Ravan ignored the peace prospal by Sri Ramchandrji.

Duryodhan did have Draupadi brought in by Dushasan and tried to treat her badly.
Duryodhan treated Pandavs very harshly.
Duryodhan listened to Sakuni and not others and continued the battle with Pandavs.
Duryodhan used to disrespct Bhisma, Dorna, Kripa and Vidurji.
Duryodhan ignored the peace prospal by Lord Sri Krishna.

Good behaviors.

Ravan was a great bhakt of Lord Shiva. Ravan prayed to Brahmaji also for boons.

Ravan was known to be a great bhakt of Lord Shiva, while Duryodhan being a bhakt of any Dev is unknown. Yes, as a rapist, I do consider Ravan worse than Duryodhan.

Ravan also had his army of Raksases kill lots of Rishies and destroy yagnas, while Duryodhan performing this type of deed is not mentioned anywhere. This is another factor that shows that Ravan was more evil than Duryodhan.